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	<title>Comments for Let Me Tell You...</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.venik4.com/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.venik4.com</link>
	<description>World politics: gripes, grumbles, and occasional analysis</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 02:45:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Mistral for Russia by Venik</title>
		<link>http://www.venik4.com/2010/02/mistral-for-russia/comment-page-1/#comment-3938</link>
		<dc:creator>Venik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 02:45:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venik4.com/?p=29363#comment-3938</guid>
		<description>Consider the circumstances of the Russian Navy: after decades of training for massive amphibious assaults with thousands of Marines and armored vehicles the Russian naval commanders run into an unexpected requirement for extended patrol (rather &quot;posturing&quot;) missions off the coast of... Africa. A similar situation arises closer to home: Georgia and possibly even Ukraine. These are cases when an all-out amphibious assault is out of the question. What is needed is a big fist that would hang over the heads of the coastal inhabitants, reminding them about the values of democracy, or whatever is on the menu.

Russia&#039;s current fleet of amphibious assault ships was not designed for this sort of thing: they were design to attack, not threaten to attack. While Mistral&#039;s amphibious assault capabilities may be questioned, its loitering (to borrow from aviation terminology) abilities far exceed those of the rather old and tired Ropucha-class. Mistral is big, well-equipped, and in comparison luxuriously comfortable. Not to mention that it can carry a serious helicopter assault force. It is the perfect combat vessel with which to threaten various banana republics.

Now, the Project 11711 is a logical continuation of the Ropucha-class. It&#039;s a ship designed for a mass amphibious assault, but just like Ropucha, it is not well suited for long-term &quot;patrol&quot; missions. Yes, it can carry three dozen APCs, but they are not much help unless you land them on the ground. 

The other problem with 11711 is more significant: it is very much a paper ship. The past twenty years have not been kind to the Russian shipbuilding industry. Much know-how has been long and very little R&amp;D has been carried out. Especially in the area of amphibious assault ships. Recent statements by Medvedev suggest that technology transfer is the primary reason for the planned purchase of the four Mistrals. Russia wants to buy one complete ship (minus weapons and radars) and to license-produce three more at home. This would give Russian ship designers and builders a valuable close look at what they missed over the past two decades.

This first-hand experience would be extremely important in light of Russia&#039;s plans to build new aircraft carriers. While Mistral is not what Russia is looking to build, it is as close a sample of Western aircraft-carrying combat ship as Russia can hope to dissect. Naturally, there are also political reasons for this planned purchase: Russia is seeking closer ties with France and nothing is better for improving relations than billions of euros.

Naval and air force bases in Abkhazia give Russia more flexibility but not a complete freedom of action in the Black Sea. Unfortunately, I have no new information about the Su-34s and their possible deployment in Abkhazia. It is really too early to know.

Ekranoplans, like Ropucha, are good for carrying out amphibious assault operations. They are not particularly useful for hanging around for extended periods of time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Consider the circumstances of the Russian Navy: after decades of training for massive amphibious assaults with thousands of Marines and armored vehicles the Russian naval commanders run into an unexpected requirement for extended patrol (rather &#8220;posturing&#8221;) missions off the coast of&#8230; Africa. A similar situation arises closer to home: Georgia and possibly even Ukraine. These are cases when an all-out amphibious assault is out of the question. What is needed is a big fist that would hang over the heads of the coastal inhabitants, reminding them about the values of democracy, or whatever is on the menu.</p>
<p>Russia&#8217;s current fleet of amphibious assault ships was not designed for this sort of thing: they were design to attack, not threaten to attack. While Mistral&#8217;s amphibious assault capabilities may be questioned, its loitering (to borrow from aviation terminology) abilities far exceed those of the rather old and tired Ropucha-class. Mistral is big, well-equipped, and in comparison luxuriously comfortable. Not to mention that it can carry a serious helicopter assault force. It is the perfect combat vessel with which to threaten various banana republics.</p>
<p>Now, the Project 11711 is a logical continuation of the Ropucha-class. It&#8217;s a ship designed for a mass amphibious assault, but just like Ropucha, it is not well suited for long-term &#8220;patrol&#8221; missions. Yes, it can carry three dozen APCs, but they are not much help unless you land them on the ground. </p>
<p>The other problem with 11711 is more significant: it is very much a paper ship. The past twenty years have not been kind to the Russian shipbuilding industry. Much know-how has been long and very little R&#038;D has been carried out. Especially in the area of amphibious assault ships. Recent statements by Medvedev suggest that technology transfer is the primary reason for the planned purchase of the four Mistrals. Russia wants to buy one complete ship (minus weapons and radars) and to license-produce three more at home. This would give Russian ship designers and builders a valuable close look at what they missed over the past two decades.</p>
<p>This first-hand experience would be extremely important in light of Russia&#8217;s plans to build new aircraft carriers. While Mistral is not what Russia is looking to build, it is as close a sample of Western aircraft-carrying combat ship as Russia can hope to dissect. Naturally, there are also political reasons for this planned purchase: Russia is seeking closer ties with France and nothing is better for improving relations than billions of euros.</p>
<p>Naval and air force bases in Abkhazia give Russia more flexibility but not a complete freedom of action in the Black Sea. Unfortunately, I have no new information about the Su-34s and their possible deployment in Abkhazia. It is really too early to know.</p>
<p>Ekranoplans, like Ropucha, are good for carrying out amphibious assault operations. They are not particularly useful for hanging around for extended periods of time.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mistral for Russia by vineyardsaker</title>
		<link>http://www.venik4.com/2010/02/mistral-for-russia/comment-page-1/#comment-3807</link>
		<dc:creator>vineyardsaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 19:13:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venik4.com/?p=29363#comment-3807</guid>
		<description>Also - if the goal is to transport naval infantry units, would ekranoplans not be a better solution?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also &#8211; if the goal is to transport naval infantry units, would ekranoplans not be a better solution?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mistral for Russia by vineyardsaker</title>
		<link>http://www.venik4.com/2010/02/mistral-for-russia/comment-page-1/#comment-3801</link>
		<dc:creator>vineyardsaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:35:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venik4.com/?p=29363#comment-3801</guid>
		<description>Sorry for being so obtuse, but I still don&#039;t get the rationale for these ships.  Why get 4 French ships instead of 775s or 11711s?  Besides, where on the Black Sea Coast would Russia need to have the capability to land and amphibious assault force?  As you say, Russia alreadu has forces in Georgia and it is building a naval base in Abkhazia.  I don&#039;t really see under what scenario these ships would be used...

BTW - if I remember correctly, a while ago you mentioned the deployment of SU-34s in Abkhazia. Any news/details on this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for being so obtuse, but I still don&#8217;t get the rationale for these ships.  Why get 4 French ships instead of 775s or 11711s?  Besides, where on the Black Sea Coast would Russia need to have the capability to land and amphibious assault force?  As you say, Russia alreadu has forces in Georgia and it is building a naval base in Abkhazia.  I don&#8217;t really see under what scenario these ships would be used&#8230;</p>
<p>BTW &#8211; if I remember correctly, a while ago you mentioned the deployment of SU-34s in Abkhazia. Any news/details on this?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mistral for Russia by Venik</title>
		<link>http://www.venik4.com/2010/02/mistral-for-russia/comment-page-1/#comment-3800</link>
		<dc:creator>Venik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venik4.com/?p=29363#comment-3800</guid>
		<description>Russian amphibious assault tactics is based around ships capable of landing armored vehicles directly on shore (current Project 775 and proposed Project 11711). Mistrals are not designed for this type of an operation. Mistrals employ smaller landing craft. To achieve the desired effect, 3-4 Mistrals would need to be used. Should Russia actually buy Mistrals - which I seriously doubt - it would make sense to deploy all of them in the Black Sea. Russia simply doesn&#039;t need them anywhere else and spreading them around would undermine their effectiveness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Russian amphibious assault tactics is based around ships capable of landing armored vehicles directly on shore (current Project 775 and proposed Project 11711). Mistrals are not designed for this type of an operation. Mistrals employ smaller landing craft. To achieve the desired effect, 3-4 Mistrals would need to be used. Should Russia actually buy Mistrals &#8211; which I seriously doubt &#8211; it would make sense to deploy all of them in the Black Sea. Russia simply doesn&#8217;t need them anywhere else and spreading them around would undermine their effectiveness.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mistral for Russia by vineyardsaker</title>
		<link>http://www.venik4.com/2010/02/mistral-for-russia/comment-page-1/#comment-3799</link>
		<dc:creator>vineyardsaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 03:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venik4.com/?p=29363#comment-3799</guid>
		<description>I wonder why they are ordering four Mistrals?  One for each fleet?  What is the rationale for that figure?

Seems to me that one Misral in the Black Sea would be enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder why they are ordering four Mistrals?  One for each fleet?  What is the rationale for that figure?</p>
<p>Seems to me that one Misral in the Black Sea would be enough.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mistral for Russia by Venik</title>
		<link>http://www.venik4.com/2010/02/mistral-for-russia/comment-page-1/#comment-3794</link>
		<dc:creator>Venik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 22:11:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venik4.com/?p=29363#comment-3794</guid>
		<description>What I mean is that Russia has no need for supercarriers of the USS Nimitz size. Russia has no experience building or operating such vessels. If Russia is going to build more aircraft carriers in the near future, they are likely to have displacement in the 50000-tone range and will be designed primarily for air superiority applications. In other words, Russia is likely to build a new variation of the Kuznetsov concept.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I mean is that Russia has no need for supercarriers of the USS Nimitz size. Russia has no experience building or operating such vessels. If Russia is going to build more aircraft carriers in the near future, they are likely to have displacement in the 50000-tone range and will be designed primarily for air superiority applications. In other words, Russia is likely to build a new variation of the Kuznetsov concept.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Mistral for Russia by Leni</title>
		<link>http://www.venik4.com/2010/02/mistral-for-russia/comment-page-1/#comment-3789</link>
		<dc:creator>Leni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venik4.com/?p=29363#comment-3789</guid>
		<description>I enjoy your articles but there seem to be some inconsistencies in this one.

At one point you say: &quot;I do not think Russia needs supercarriers&quot;

And yet you go on to state/conclude: &quot;it would be nice if Russia had an aircraft carrier&quot;

So which is the best way forward? A smaller carrier than the US super carriers? Or simply exploiting the long range of the T50 with air refuelling? Or some other combination? 

Good to see more current posts on the site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoy your articles but there seem to be some inconsistencies in this one.</p>
<p>At one point you say: &#8220;I do not think Russia needs supercarriers&#8221;</p>
<p>And yet you go on to state/conclude: &#8220;it would be nice if Russia had an aircraft carrier&#8221;</p>
<p>So which is the best way forward? A smaller carrier than the US super carriers? Or simply exploiting the long range of the T50 with air refuelling? Or some other combination? </p>
<p>Good to see more current posts on the site.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Sukhoi T-50 Production and Procurement Details by Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.venik4.com/2010/02/sukhoi-t-50-production-and-procurement-details/comment-page-1/#comment-3764</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venik4.com/?p=29352#comment-3764</guid>
		<description>Hi! What about plasma stealth? Did the Russians change their mind about using it? What about the avionics? I read some where that the pak fa has a stealth fighter detection mode ( L band radar system). please explain more about the radar system.

thanx.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi! What about plasma stealth? Did the Russians change their mind about using it? What about the avionics? I read some where that the pak fa has a stealth fighter detection mode ( L band radar system). please explain more about the radar system.</p>
<p>thanx.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Sukhoi T-50 Production and Procurement Details by Venik</title>
		<link>http://www.venik4.com/2010/02/sukhoi-t-50-production-and-procurement-details/comment-page-1/#comment-3736</link>
		<dc:creator>Venik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venik4.com/?p=29352#comment-3736</guid>
		<description>Marketing potential of T-50 will depend on its final cost, which is expected to be in the same range as Su-30MKI, provided the Indians don&#039;t bail out. The T-50 has the potential of being a hell of a lot cheaper than the F-22, while offering very similar capabilities. If Russia and India can afford it, there are many other countries that can afford it as well.

The F-22 is an extremely advanced aircraft. And American &quot;advanced&quot; usually stands for &quot;overpriced&quot; and &quot;fiddly&quot;. Not to say that the Raptor is not a premier fighter aircraft. It is a great achievement. It&#039;s that just American defense industry is notorious for its ability to waste taxpayer dollars. The Russian military-industrial complex would certainly like to catch up to their American colleagues in that department. Luckily, they don&#039;t have that much money to waste.

As far as political will goes, that can change very quickly. I actually doubt that China will become an operator of the T-50. They have a competing project and, unless something goes terribly wrong, they will probably decide to stick with it. But there are plenty of other countries that, in 5-10 years, will be looking to upgrade their park of fighters and will find few alternatives to the T-50. Political will has an interesting way of conforming to financial reality. Ten years is a very long time in international politics. A lot can change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marketing potential of T-50 will depend on its final cost, which is expected to be in the same range as Su-30MKI, provided the Indians don&#8217;t bail out. The T-50 has the potential of being a hell of a lot cheaper than the F-22, while offering very similar capabilities. If Russia and India can afford it, there are many other countries that can afford it as well.</p>
<p>The F-22 is an extremely advanced aircraft. And American &#8220;advanced&#8221; usually stands for &#8220;overpriced&#8221; and &#8220;fiddly&#8221;. Not to say that the Raptor is not a premier fighter aircraft. It is a great achievement. It&#8217;s that just American defense industry is notorious for its ability to waste taxpayer dollars. The Russian military-industrial complex would certainly like to catch up to their American colleagues in that department. Luckily, they don&#8217;t have that much money to waste.</p>
<p>As far as political will goes, that can change very quickly. I actually doubt that China will become an operator of the T-50. They have a competing project and, unless something goes terribly wrong, they will probably decide to stick with it. But there are plenty of other countries that, in 5-10 years, will be looking to upgrade their park of fighters and will find few alternatives to the T-50. Political will has an interesting way of conforming to financial reality. Ten years is a very long time in international politics. A lot can change.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Sukhoi T-50 Production and Procurement Details by vineyardsaker</title>
		<link>http://www.venik4.com/2010/02/sukhoi-t-50-production-and-procurement-details/comment-page-1/#comment-3720</link>
		<dc:creator>vineyardsaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Feb 2010 04:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venik4.com/?p=29352#comment-3720</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;But they are also interested in the marketing potential of the PAKFA.&lt;/i&gt;

What countries do you believe would be willing and able to aquire such an expensive and sophisticated 5th generation multirole aircraft?

We know that India will probably want 200 or so double-seater variants.  I suspect that the Chinese would also be interested.   But I don&#039;t really see who else could have a) the political freedom to do so b) the financial means and c) an air force sophisticated enough to integrate such a complex machine.

Do you?

Cheers,

VS</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But they are also interested in the marketing potential of the PAKFA.</i></p>
<p>What countries do you believe would be willing and able to aquire such an expensive and sophisticated 5th generation multirole aircraft?</p>
<p>We know that India will probably want 200 or so double-seater variants.  I suspect that the Chinese would also be interested.   But I don&#8217;t really see who else could have a) the political freedom to do so b) the financial means and c) an air force sophisticated enough to integrate such a complex machine.</p>
<p>Do you?</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>VS</p>
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