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	<title>Comments on: Finland Pushes Putin&#8217;s Buttons</title>
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	<link>http://www.venik4.com/2009/08/finland-pushes-putins-buttons/</link>
	<description>World politics: gripes, grumbles, and occasional analysis</description>
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		<title>By: kvs</title>
		<link>http://www.venik4.com/2009/08/finland-pushes-putins-buttons/comment-page-1/#comment-1064</link>
		<dc:creator>kvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venik4.com/?p=28805#comment-1064</guid>
		<description>I agree with you Venik that the Russian government and Putin look like idiots for tolerating this gross violation of human rights of Russian citizens.  The least that Russia could do would be to introduce some heavy trade sanctions against Finland.  In particular all lumber related trade should be halted.  Expulsion of a few Finnish diplomats (regardless of any retaliation) would be a good idea too since clearly they are there for malicious purposes to start with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you Venik that the Russian government and Putin look like idiots for tolerating this gross violation of human rights of Russian citizens.  The least that Russia could do would be to introduce some heavy trade sanctions against Finland.  In particular all lumber related trade should be halted.  Expulsion of a few Finnish diplomats (regardless of any retaliation) would be a good idea too since clearly they are there for malicious purposes to start with.</p>
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		<title>By: kvs</title>
		<link>http://www.venik4.com/2009/08/finland-pushes-putins-buttons/comment-page-1/#comment-1063</link>
		<dc:creator>kvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:43:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venik4.com/?p=28805#comment-1063</guid>
		<description>Anyone trying to make the Finnish side look good in this affair cannot be taken seriously.  Both the child and mother were kidnapped by the Finnish state.  This is state sponsored terrorism.   In basically every western country the law assigns priority to the mother over the father.  But here you have the complete opposite standard applied with grotesque abuse of power simply because the mother is Russian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone trying to make the Finnish side look good in this affair cannot be taken seriously.  Both the child and mother were kidnapped by the Finnish state.  This is state sponsored terrorism.   In basically every western country the law assigns priority to the mother over the father.  But here you have the complete opposite standard applied with grotesque abuse of power simply because the mother is Russian.</p>
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		<title>By: Lars Kesoman</title>
		<link>http://www.venik4.com/2009/08/finland-pushes-putins-buttons/comment-page-1/#comment-987</link>
		<dc:creator>Lars Kesoman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 01:33:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venik4.com/?p=28805#comment-987</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not going to comment on the subject after this but before that there&#039;s few things I&#039;d like to point out.

Even though you expressed your disinterest for the media&#039;s, and especially Finnish media&#039;s, effect on the matter I&#039;d like to return to that. For had it not been for the articles nominating the consul in question as a hero of some sort the public opinion might have been less supportive for his part.

That leads us to the thing you mentioned - the contempt for Russia. It has been argued by many academics that the media is giving a purposely anti-Russian message when it comes things like this. It will affect the popular opinion and explains pretty neatly how the issue was received. This all may seem like a universal contempt against Russia by Finnish people.

All in all, what I&#039;ve observed and have been trying to bring up is that there really doesn&#039;t exist any real universal contempt there. Yes there are people
that disrespect Russia and Russians, and quite a few of them actually, but the disrespect is not universal and I hope that though your relationship with Finns you&#039;ve encountered has been obviously bad and you dislike them - I hope you do not think that all Finns disrespect Russia.

Anyways you might not care less about all this but I&#039;d like to sincerely thank you for your insight on the matter. It has really helped me to understand the Russian point of view to matters like this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not going to comment on the subject after this but before that there&#8217;s few things I&#8217;d like to point out.</p>
<p>Even though you expressed your disinterest for the media&#8217;s, and especially Finnish media&#8217;s, effect on the matter I&#8217;d like to return to that. For had it not been for the articles nominating the consul in question as a hero of some sort the public opinion might have been less supportive for his part.</p>
<p>That leads us to the thing you mentioned &#8211; the contempt for Russia. It has been argued by many academics that the media is giving a purposely anti-Russian message when it comes things like this. It will affect the popular opinion and explains pretty neatly how the issue was received. This all may seem like a universal contempt against Russia by Finnish people.</p>
<p>All in all, what I&#8217;ve observed and have been trying to bring up is that there really doesn&#8217;t exist any real universal contempt there. Yes there are people<br />
that disrespect Russia and Russians, and quite a few of them actually, but the disrespect is not universal and I hope that though your relationship with Finns you&#8217;ve encountered has been obviously bad and you dislike them &#8211; I hope you do not think that all Finns disrespect Russia.</p>
<p>Anyways you might not care less about all this but I&#8217;d like to sincerely thank you for your insight on the matter. It has really helped me to understand the Russian point of view to matters like this.</p>
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		<title>By: Venik</title>
		<link>http://www.venik4.com/2009/08/finland-pushes-putins-buttons/comment-page-1/#comment-982</link>
		<dc:creator>Venik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 19:25:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venik4.com/?p=28805#comment-982</guid>
		<description>I am not particularly interested in a comparative analysis of news reporting in Finland and Russia. I couldn&#039;t care less about the little Anton, his hysterical mother, or the crazy old fart she had the misfortune of meeting. 

Finland crossed the line when its senior diplomatic envoy to Russia chose to break Russian law and escalate this family feud to the level of an international crisis.

Just because neither country signed the Child Abduction Treaty, it does not excuse the consul&#039;s actions. If I remember correctly, Russia and Finland do not have a non-aggression pact signed either. So what does that mean?

Finns pride themselves on being factual and cool-headed. Don&#039;t exaggerate, they say. The incident with the consul shows them in a very different light. The situation with the ex-consul might have been written off as one man&#039;s decision has it not been for the recent entrapment perpetrated by Finnish police against the boy&#039;s mother.

Taken in concert, these acts by Finnish officials present deliberate contempt for Russian law and disregard for bilateral relations. If such a high-ranking Finnish diplomat - a man who should be at the forefront of improving relations with Russia - feels such deep contempt for Russia, then what can be said about the average Finns?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not particularly interested in a comparative analysis of news reporting in Finland and Russia. I couldn&#8217;t care less about the little Anton, his hysterical mother, or the crazy old fart she had the misfortune of meeting. </p>
<p>Finland crossed the line when its senior diplomatic envoy to Russia chose to break Russian law and escalate this family feud to the level of an international crisis.</p>
<p>Just because neither country signed the Child Abduction Treaty, it does not excuse the consul&#8217;s actions. If I remember correctly, Russia and Finland do not have a non-aggression pact signed either. So what does that mean?</p>
<p>Finns pride themselves on being factual and cool-headed. Don&#8217;t exaggerate, they say. The incident with the consul shows them in a very different light. The situation with the ex-consul might have been written off as one man&#8217;s decision has it not been for the recent entrapment perpetrated by Finnish police against the boy&#8217;s mother.</p>
<p>Taken in concert, these acts by Finnish officials present deliberate contempt for Russian law and disregard for bilateral relations. If such a high-ranking Finnish diplomat &#8211; a man who should be at the forefront of improving relations with Russia &#8211; feels such deep contempt for Russia, then what can be said about the average Finns?</p>
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		<title>By: Lars Kesoman</title>
		<link>http://www.venik4.com/2009/08/finland-pushes-putins-buttons/comment-page-1/#comment-981</link>
		<dc:creator>Lars Kesoman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 18:58:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venik4.com/?p=28805#comment-981</guid>
		<description>This is actually what I mean about the respective countries&#039; media feeding different information. 

Correct me if I&#039;m wrong but I&#039;ve understood that the Russian argument has been all along that the child was kidnapped from his mother while they were staying on Russian soil and his mother had already arranged him the nationality. Combined with claim that the kidnap was arranged or at least overlooked by the Finnish government.

Whereas the Finnish media have mainly reported about the incident before, that his mother took him away without consent from his father and fled Finland. After which Russian court forbid him to leave with his child when he entered the country to reclaim him. Also it has been claimed that the consul acted on his own accord while &quot;helping them return&quot; or &quot;helping the father kidnap the child&quot;, however you want to say it.

Now you say this should have been a family court matter but neither country has actually taken part in the Hague Child Abduction Treaty so it actually could not have been handled by court of the country of origin after they left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is actually what I mean about the respective countries&#8217; media feeding different information. </p>
<p>Correct me if I&#8217;m wrong but I&#8217;ve understood that the Russian argument has been all along that the child was kidnapped from his mother while they were staying on Russian soil and his mother had already arranged him the nationality. Combined with claim that the kidnap was arranged or at least overlooked by the Finnish government.</p>
<p>Whereas the Finnish media have mainly reported about the incident before, that his mother took him away without consent from his father and fled Finland. After which Russian court forbid him to leave with his child when he entered the country to reclaim him. Also it has been claimed that the consul acted on his own accord while &#8220;helping them return&#8221; or &#8220;helping the father kidnap the child&#8221;, however you want to say it.</p>
<p>Now you say this should have been a family court matter but neither country has actually taken part in the Hague Child Abduction Treaty so it actually could not have been handled by court of the country of origin after they left.</p>
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		<title>By: Venik</title>
		<link>http://www.venik4.com/2009/08/finland-pushes-putins-buttons/comment-page-1/#comment-975</link>
		<dc:creator>Venik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 05:17:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venik4.com/?p=28805#comment-975</guid>
		<description>It would appear that quite a bit of history is standing in the way of good relations between Russia and Finland. Since I am a &quot;xenos&quot; where I live, it is unlikely that I am also a xenophobe, so bear with me. My opinions are my own and it cannot be helped if I dislike Finns. Not all of then, mind you, but just those I&#039;ve met. 

Opinions aside, it would seem clear that the government of Finland decided to get directly involved in what should have been a matter for a family court at best. When senior diplomats start kidnapping foreign citizens... I doubt any additional facts that managed to escape the tabloids would really make that big of a difference against the backdrop of a Finnish consul running the border with a child in the trunk of his car.

Actually, this is a nice illustration of everything I think about the Finns. Well, maybe except for the part about the smell...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would appear that quite a bit of history is standing in the way of good relations between Russia and Finland. Since I am a &#8220;xenos&#8221; where I live, it is unlikely that I am also a xenophobe, so bear with me. My opinions are my own and it cannot be helped if I dislike Finns. Not all of then, mind you, but just those I&#8217;ve met. </p>
<p>Opinions aside, it would seem clear that the government of Finland decided to get directly involved in what should have been a matter for a family court at best. When senior diplomats start kidnapping foreign citizens&#8230; I doubt any additional facts that managed to escape the tabloids would really make that big of a difference against the backdrop of a Finnish consul running the border with a child in the trunk of his car.</p>
<p>Actually, this is a nice illustration of everything I think about the Finns. Well, maybe except for the part about the smell&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Lars Kesoman</title>
		<link>http://www.venik4.com/2009/08/finland-pushes-putins-buttons/comment-page-1/#comment-974</link>
		<dc:creator>Lars Kesoman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 03:13:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.venik4.com/?p=28805#comment-974</guid>
		<description>What strikes me most after reading news articles and opinions from the both sides is the nationalistic anger this, to be frank quite small, incident rises. 
Not to mention that the news articles presented by both sides&#039; media seem to say almost opposite things be equally full of bs.
People, both Russian and Finnish, that think this is their business somehow should not be so eager to judge people based on what their own tabloids write and instead look for the truth a bit further.

I just feel it&#039;s a shame if this causes ill will between the states since frankly there are more things connecting than dividing the aforementioned people.


P.S. Though that last part you wrote kinda makes you stand off as arrogant and xenophobe so i don&#039;t think you can really go beyond the tabloid believer state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What strikes me most after reading news articles and opinions from the both sides is the nationalistic anger this, to be frank quite small, incident rises.<br />
Not to mention that the news articles presented by both sides&#8217; media seem to say almost opposite things be equally full of bs.<br />
People, both Russian and Finnish, that think this is their business somehow should not be so eager to judge people based on what their own tabloids write and instead look for the truth a bit further.</p>
<p>I just feel it&#8217;s a shame if this causes ill will between the states since frankly there are more things connecting than dividing the aforementioned people.</p>
<p>P.S. Though that last part you wrote kinda makes you stand off as arrogant and xenophobe so i don&#8217;t think you can really go beyond the tabloid believer state.</p>
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